I agree with your critique, though I also want to point out that purpose and peak experiences are not at odds. Bill Perkins and many other retirees can play all the pickleball they want AND spend $100k on a milestone event. The choice is more pointedly between spending and keeping all your money tucked away at Vanguard like digital security blanket.
For me, the book is an argument against two things. "One more year" and the enevitable hand wringing over daily spending in de-accumulation phase. It succeds with balance. I can't speak for or against 'the weaponization' or 'culture'. Those would be measured by actions, I think, not online conversations.
I think you (and Perkins) missed the real point...the underlying problem is that there are millions of resources, books and pundits offering guidance about saving money for retirement...what's missing is guidance out there telling retired folks to not be so paranoid about spending some of it when they are retired... most people are scared to death of running out of money when they actually dont need to be....
I agree with you and thank you for this. I read the book several times now. I listened to it shortly after it came out and everyone was talking about it. At first I was thinking this makes sense. Then after I got to Perkin's very expensive private island birthday party, that took me a moment to think about who was talking. Plus the concept of debt early that just didn't make sense. Did I like it. I did. Then I became to not like it as much because I felt just like you mentioned the FI and media focused on zero as the new goal.
Now I have read it again with my ChooseFI local group and we all made different comments. Balance is the right answer.
What stood out for me was the fact we still need to prepare for the end and we don't know for sure what that is. Perkins is very wealthy and he is in a different situation for sure. He isn't struggling to save and invest. My concern has been for people reading this that haven't had a good foundation and instead overspend now.
Yes, we shouldn't be trying to make the most money and live for today and make the most of it. You can't get to zero at the end and don't want to either. Yet at the same time we don't want to be holding on to so much extra and want to help our children now, help our future grandchildren and our local community. Like Frank Vasquez says Chili Pepper Fi. 🤟❤️
While I voted in your poll, the voting options were so extreme that I was left to cast a vote for you are full of poop. You are not full of poop but I do think you are being overly critical. I do think Die with Zero as a whole is a concept that can add value to one’s FI journey. Even as I read it, I selectively tossed aside some of his most extreme thoughts. I do think the core message that there are seasons to enjoy experiences and those seasons do not last indefinitely is a reasonably valuable point.
Thanks for all of your thoughtful work. I very much enjoy many of your columns. :)
I find it somewhat rich when people who are still working dole out advice for those of us who are retired (aka Perkins, among others). This is Year 9 of my retirement wrapping things up at 54. Things look different when you’re not bringing in that big salary any longer. With that said, my youngest son and I are on the Shinkansen Nozomi train from Hiroshima back to Tokyo after spending 10 days exploring this beautiful country. One needs to be mindful of how and when we spend the hard earned nest egg. But one must not just watch it grow and grow. What good is a fat account and your back hurts so you don’t take the international trip? I believe we need to give ourselves permission to spend so as not to miss out on experiences we want to live. These don’t have to be fancy and frivolous to spend down that nest egg. So, I’m kinda in the middle of this debate and not a Zero proponent. Take the trip ($$), volunteer your time (00), fund your grand children’s 529s ($$), stay home and cook a great meal (00), but do it wisely. The last thing I want is a fat 0 in my bank account and rely on my children to help out their dad.
I say this all the time in my work: kids don't inherit your budget, they inherit your self-talk. A kid who grows up hearing every splurge re-labeled an "investment" becomes an adult who can justify anything. The great part is you don't have to spend less, you just have to stop laundering the reason you're spending.
I agree with many of your points — especially the point on Purpose vs Experiences. But both are important and valuable. Experiences can be as much for you as for your loved ones when they reflect back with a smile on that trip or party long after you are gone.
I also feel the book reads like a billionaire wrote it. His examples are too extreme for the typical reader. He sets the bar dangerously high and too risky for most. He encourages risky behavior when young based on the assumption that “you can just make it up later in life”.
That said, there were some good take-a-ways, including the idea of helping out family members when they need it most vs inheriting a bunch of money late in life when they likely need it the least.
Interesting book, but there are far better books worth reading, IMHO. Morgan Housel Psychology of Money, for one. Christine Benz, How to Retire being another. Even The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter would sit higher up on my recommended reading list.
From all of the push back on this article and especially your previous one, I am perplexed at how you think there is some "culture" around the book that has misinterpreted what the book actually says. You may have talked with a handful of people who actually read the book and somehow misunderstood it and have some anxiety, but for the vast majority of people who read the book and commented, they do not take it literal, but they do walk away with lots of key takeaways to apply to their life (seasons of life, give with a warm hand, leverage money maximize time with family and friends). Before you make a broad assumption about a dangerous cultural misinterpretation please provide some scientific analysis to back it up. I read his book three times and I sure could use page references and quotes about Perkins asserting a literal spend to actual zero before taking your last breath. He doesn't, so please stop trying to imply he does to double-down on your misinterpretation of the book. You also keep harping on spending on luxury items like his family trip to the Caribbean. The point wasn't luxury in the Caribbean, the point was getting family and friends together more wherever that may be. I have not seen any hedonic adaptation to more time spent with family and friends, so spending our money on transportation to help get family and friends together who otherwise couldn't afford it is money well spent. For example, my wife and I spent ~$7K on two AirBnBs in Eugene, OR, for college graduation and a huge house on the Oregon coast for the following week to bring together close family for my daughter's college graduation from U of Oregon. Otherwise most of our close family could not afford to come stay. I reminisce about that trip with each family member who was there almost every time we are together (memory dividends you are quick to discount!!!!). We did a similar ski trip for family last December near my mom's house in ID, and we frequently fly to visit our kids (more money well spent!) on each coast. It isn't about the location as you seem to focus, it is the time hanging out with them playing board games, going for walks, deep conversations, and cooking meals together that makes spending that money worth it. I thank Bill Perkins for the shot in arm to take action to increase my memory dividends with my family and friends! Please STOP assuming that people who read Die With Zero have somehow misapplied the book in some dangerous way. If someone has, they likely didn't read the book (or read it closely) and are a one-off, not a trend. Thanks!
Hi Jordan. I truly appreciate your original post, and your follow-up to support your takeaway from this book. I wanted to submit a response to your poll, however, 1: I stand by my original response so, Hell Yes! is not an option for me, 2: I don't believe your are Full Of Shit! at all, 3: while I respect and appreciate your thoughts on the Die With Zero message, I came away with a different perspective on what works for me and what doesn't, so Not Decided Yet cannot be selected. If you add 'I truly appreciate your post/note and response to your original post/note but we definitely have different perspectives on the message. That I can get behind. In the end, everyone has their own priorities and circumstances and I suspect you want to have a rewarding life, just as I do. Thanks again for your insights and putting in the effort to post them.
I agree with your critique, though I also want to point out that purpose and peak experiences are not at odds. Bill Perkins and many other retirees can play all the pickleball they want AND spend $100k on a milestone event. The choice is more pointedly between spending and keeping all your money tucked away at Vanguard like digital security blanket.
For me, the book is an argument against two things. "One more year" and the enevitable hand wringing over daily spending in de-accumulation phase. It succeds with balance. I can't speak for or against 'the weaponization' or 'culture'. Those would be measured by actions, I think, not online conversations.
I think you (and Perkins) missed the real point...the underlying problem is that there are millions of resources, books and pundits offering guidance about saving money for retirement...what's missing is guidance out there telling retired folks to not be so paranoid about spending some of it when they are retired... most people are scared to death of running out of money when they actually dont need to be....
I agree with you and thank you for this. I read the book several times now. I listened to it shortly after it came out and everyone was talking about it. At first I was thinking this makes sense. Then after I got to Perkin's very expensive private island birthday party, that took me a moment to think about who was talking. Plus the concept of debt early that just didn't make sense. Did I like it. I did. Then I became to not like it as much because I felt just like you mentioned the FI and media focused on zero as the new goal.
Now I have read it again with my ChooseFI local group and we all made different comments. Balance is the right answer.
What stood out for me was the fact we still need to prepare for the end and we don't know for sure what that is. Perkins is very wealthy and he is in a different situation for sure. He isn't struggling to save and invest. My concern has been for people reading this that haven't had a good foundation and instead overspend now.
Yes, we shouldn't be trying to make the most money and live for today and make the most of it. You can't get to zero at the end and don't want to either. Yet at the same time we don't want to be holding on to so much extra and want to help our children now, help our future grandchildren and our local community. Like Frank Vasquez says Chili Pepper Fi. 🤟❤️
Great post! Thanks!
While I voted in your poll, the voting options were so extreme that I was left to cast a vote for you are full of poop. You are not full of poop but I do think you are being overly critical. I do think Die with Zero as a whole is a concept that can add value to one’s FI journey. Even as I read it, I selectively tossed aside some of his most extreme thoughts. I do think the core message that there are seasons to enjoy experiences and those seasons do not last indefinitely is a reasonably valuable point.
Thanks for all of your thoughtful work. I very much enjoy many of your columns. :)
I find it somewhat rich when people who are still working dole out advice for those of us who are retired (aka Perkins, among others). This is Year 9 of my retirement wrapping things up at 54. Things look different when you’re not bringing in that big salary any longer. With that said, my youngest son and I are on the Shinkansen Nozomi train from Hiroshima back to Tokyo after spending 10 days exploring this beautiful country. One needs to be mindful of how and when we spend the hard earned nest egg. But one must not just watch it grow and grow. What good is a fat account and your back hurts so you don’t take the international trip? I believe we need to give ourselves permission to spend so as not to miss out on experiences we want to live. These don’t have to be fancy and frivolous to spend down that nest egg. So, I’m kinda in the middle of this debate and not a Zero proponent. Take the trip ($$), volunteer your time (00), fund your grand children’s 529s ($$), stay home and cook a great meal (00), but do it wisely. The last thing I want is a fat 0 in my bank account and rely on my children to help out their dad.
I say this all the time in my work: kids don't inherit your budget, they inherit your self-talk. A kid who grows up hearing every splurge re-labeled an "investment" becomes an adult who can justify anything. The great part is you don't have to spend less, you just have to stop laundering the reason you're spending.
I agree with many of your points — especially the point on Purpose vs Experiences. But both are important and valuable. Experiences can be as much for you as for your loved ones when they reflect back with a smile on that trip or party long after you are gone.
I also feel the book reads like a billionaire wrote it. His examples are too extreme for the typical reader. He sets the bar dangerously high and too risky for most. He encourages risky behavior when young based on the assumption that “you can just make it up later in life”.
That said, there were some good take-a-ways, including the idea of helping out family members when they need it most vs inheriting a bunch of money late in life when they likely need it the least.
Interesting book, but there are far better books worth reading, IMHO. Morgan Housel Psychology of Money, for one. Christine Benz, How to Retire being another. Even The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter would sit higher up on my recommended reading list.
From all of the push back on this article and especially your previous one, I am perplexed at how you think there is some "culture" around the book that has misinterpreted what the book actually says. You may have talked with a handful of people who actually read the book and somehow misunderstood it and have some anxiety, but for the vast majority of people who read the book and commented, they do not take it literal, but they do walk away with lots of key takeaways to apply to their life (seasons of life, give with a warm hand, leverage money maximize time with family and friends). Before you make a broad assumption about a dangerous cultural misinterpretation please provide some scientific analysis to back it up. I read his book three times and I sure could use page references and quotes about Perkins asserting a literal spend to actual zero before taking your last breath. He doesn't, so please stop trying to imply he does to double-down on your misinterpretation of the book. You also keep harping on spending on luxury items like his family trip to the Caribbean. The point wasn't luxury in the Caribbean, the point was getting family and friends together more wherever that may be. I have not seen any hedonic adaptation to more time spent with family and friends, so spending our money on transportation to help get family and friends together who otherwise couldn't afford it is money well spent. For example, my wife and I spent ~$7K on two AirBnBs in Eugene, OR, for college graduation and a huge house on the Oregon coast for the following week to bring together close family for my daughter's college graduation from U of Oregon. Otherwise most of our close family could not afford to come stay. I reminisce about that trip with each family member who was there almost every time we are together (memory dividends you are quick to discount!!!!). We did a similar ski trip for family last December near my mom's house in ID, and we frequently fly to visit our kids (more money well spent!) on each coast. It isn't about the location as you seem to focus, it is the time hanging out with them playing board games, going for walks, deep conversations, and cooking meals together that makes spending that money worth it. I thank Bill Perkins for the shot in arm to take action to increase my memory dividends with my family and friends! Please STOP assuming that people who read Die With Zero have somehow misapplied the book in some dangerous way. If someone has, they likely didn't read the book (or read it closely) and are a one-off, not a trend. Thanks!
My guess is that it was more than 100k! He flew people out!
I believe he explicitly said he spent $500K, but it’s been a minute since I read the book.
I made a dramatic spending change for a year on housing and created some memory dividends. Maybe I am his ideal reader 😂
Hi Jordan. I truly appreciate your original post, and your follow-up to support your takeaway from this book. I wanted to submit a response to your poll, however, 1: I stand by my original response so, Hell Yes! is not an option for me, 2: I don't believe your are Full Of Shit! at all, 3: while I respect and appreciate your thoughts on the Die With Zero message, I came away with a different perspective on what works for me and what doesn't, so Not Decided Yet cannot be selected. If you add 'I truly appreciate your post/note and response to your original post/note but we definitely have different perspectives on the message. That I can get behind. In the end, everyone has their own priorities and circumstances and I suspect you want to have a rewarding life, just as I do. Thanks again for your insights and putting in the effort to post them.